| Forgiveness For believers seeking and offering forgiveness of sins; in a safe, no judgement atmosphere. | 
01-22-2008, 09:42 AM
| | Banned | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: St. Marys, Georgia
Posts: 10
Rep Power: 0 | | "They know not what they do..." The spiritual education of humans has left much to be desired over the past couple thousand years. But even in the best scenario, we don't all arrive here to continue our education at the same time, nor do we experience life at the same rate. Is a first-grader dumb because he isn't a high school senior yet, or because he hasn't learned geometry or calculus? There is a reason Jesus said things like, "The sick and the poor will always be among us," and, "The know not what they do..." There will always be first-graders; and they will always need instruction.
There is a vast difference between Knowledge and Wisdom. The popular image of a devil on one shoulder and an angel on the other is simply a representation of the inner struggle any one of us could face at any time -- the struggle between Head and Heart. It is with our knowledge that we manipulate situations and try to get what we THINK is the best thing we could get from a given situation.
But with the Heart, we can KNOW what is our truest course of action. A few years ago, there were these bracelets that read: WWJD? (What Would Jesus Do?) The answer to that would usually be -- follow the Heart. Jesus knew the source of human Wisdom; and always tried to act from the heart. He didn't always manage; but he always did his best.
When someone does something mean, hurtful, careless, or thoughtless, it is easy to say that their behavior is "below par" and that they are wrong. But they are only wrong in the eyes of those who judge them. The teachings to, "Love the sinner," and, "Love the criminal," are designed to protect us from our judgments. Figuring out how a particular offense is not really a BAD thing is too complicated for most people; but anyone can remember hard and fast rules like: LOVE everyone Always; or, "Judge not."
We often expect people to act like "grown-ups," but how does one "act" Five-foot-ten-inches? A grown-up is simply someone with a fully developed, or grown, body. Mentally and Spiritually, however, it isn't always easy to see if a person is mature or not. All grown-ups look about the same. But they don't act the same.
When a person does something "bad," you can be assured they have been taught how -- probably at a very formative time in their life. People either act from inspiration, or from programming; if a person is doing something hurtful, you can be sure it isn't inspired action, and it will bear its own fruits. If a person treats you poorly, they need love more than you. It's not always easy to see that when we are in pain; but it is always the truth. Love is all anyone ever needs.
People only do hurtful things to themselves and others because they "know not what they do." Instead of trying to figure out what rule a person has violated, so they can be judged appropriately, leave judgment to God -- and don't assume that you already know the verdict (because your little human life isn't long enough to hear and consider all the evidence).
Jesus taught to not "curse an olive tree" because it doesn't grow apples... Each of us has a plan written in our DNA; and, when we aren't making conscious choices for ourselves, our genetic programming acts as our "default" settings. In other words, you always have at least two choices: Act consciously; or act automatically. If you are hurting someone, you are acting unconsciously (automatically); and if you are not showing forgiveness, you are also acting unconsciously -- or without the input of the Heart.
You may say, "But my Heart is broken; and that jerk is the one who did it!" But a broken heart is also an open heart; and, as long as you are alive, your Heart is working. To do without your greatest gift (the wisdom of the Heart) is the greatest sin. The word, "Sin," does not mean, "Crime," by the way. The word, "Sin," means, "Without." To sin is to simply do without; and, in the context it is most often used, it means, "to do without the wisdom and guidance of the Heart."
That wisdom is the wisdom that helps us love people instead of crucify them because they are rocking our boat. When someone sins, they aren't doing anything to anyone else. If you are the "offended" party, keep in mind that your journey with this person is brief; and you are both learning and growing. Don't make your lessons unnecessarily painful by holding onto your need to be right or in control -- or holding onto your need for things to unfold perfectly when you haven't really put all the right ingredients into the mix to begin with.
Forgiveness isn't for people who sin against you; forgiveness is your key to unlock the chains of ignorance and the pain it has caused. Am I saying you are ignorant if your husband or wife has cheated on you? No. Am I saying you are ignorant because you got mad or hurt over the situation? No. I'm saying that we are all connected and there is a reason for everything -- until we see that, we are doing without the wisdom that could set us free. As long as we are blaming and criticizing, we are not letting go; we are doing without our birthright -- wisdom and the peace it brings.
True, when you bang a gong, it vibrates for quite some time. Likewise, when you take a hammer and smash a relationship, there is an echo that lasts a long time. But getting vaccinated before starting first grade hurt, too; I just try not to think about it -- but, if I do, I can still remember the pain. But who wants to do that?!
Forgiveness isn't always easy; but it is always your best option. You can say, "But they don't deserve forgiveness!" Well, don't worry about that; if they are in the habit of doing hurtful things, they probably don't know how to forgive themselves anyway. But you couldn't GIVE them forgiveness, if you wanted to. Forgiveness is something you can only do for yourself. And, if you are judging someone else's deservedness, you aren't getting the benefits of forgiveness -- and your mind and thoughts are not on your own life where they are supposed to be.
When we ask another for forgiveness, we are simply asking them to let go of any memories that we may have given them that are uncomfortable to them. We ask others to forgive us when we are really asking them to try and forget what we have done so the suffering we have caused can come to an end.
You can expect as much spiritual maturity from people as you'd like; but try not to be disappointed when they don't do what you expected them to do, or what you might have wanted them to do. It is only our attachment to our beliefs about the future and what others should do that causes pain and suffering. If someone is falling short of your standards or expectations, you are being judgmental -- whether you are being unkind, or not. We are each pre-programmed with our standards of behavior; when someone does different than you would hope, they simply weren't trained in the same way you were.
The Buddhists have a teaching that says, "When someone who I have helped greatly, or in whom I have put great hopes, hurts me or treats me poorly, I will treat them still as my precious teacher..." Jesus just said, "Turn the other cheek," and, "Love the sinner." If people don't want you around, He said, "Brush the dust off as you leave..." Don't let someone else knock you off your path just because they stumbled on theirs, or because they don't know what to do. Help them if they want it; or brush the dust off if they don't. But, in either case, love them and bless them.
There is a scene in the movie, "A Night at the Museum," where the main character, played by Ben Stiller, is in a dispute with a monkey -- that's right, he was arguing with a monkey. The monkey slapped him in the face; and he slapped the monkey back. The monkey slapped him again, and he slapped the monkey back -- starting a back-and-forth volley of slaps to the face. Another character, played by Robin Williams, told the Ben Stiller character to, "Stop slapping the monkey!" To which Ben's character replies, "But he hit me first!"
Robin Williams' character responded with the question, "Who's evolved? Who's evolved?" People who treat others poorly are not spiritually evolved past the point of doing whatever they have done; and they aren't getting there any quicker without examples of unconditional love and forgiveness. People who treat others poorly simply don't understand the underlying connectedness of all things; but neither do people who judge, blame, or criticize those who "know not what they do."
Love them all! No matter what, love them all! | 
01-22-2008, 12:41 PM
| | Senior Member | | Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 37
Rep Power: 0 | | God bless you sir! | 
01-22-2008, 07:29 PM
| | Senior Member | | Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,047
Rep Power: 2 | | Thankyou Since I am so new, it's difficult to share painful memories. Physiologically, the human brain is not ABLE to "forget" even when we choose to forgive. Maybe you have an answer for me, Pete. What does a baby or an infant do when abused and violated? How can you release these from your spirit when it goes on until you are old enough to leave and make it on your own? And then, when you are all alone at night when everyone is sound asleep, how do you reconcile all of that with the fact that you were "chosen" by GOD before the foundation of the world came to be? Do you understand the question? I desperately need to forgive, but I don't know how to forget. I am NOT judging, but things like that that continue for YEARS...how do you get rid of that kind of baggage? | 
01-22-2008, 08:44 PM
|  | Senior Member | | Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,537
Rep Power: 2 | | Hello Pete,
The law - 10 commandments - was given to man to reveal the sinfulness of his acts. Because there is this amazing faculty about the human heart: we never think that what we are doing is wrong. It is always what the other fellow does that is wrong, isn't it? It's remarkable the different expressions we have for this. We have a whole category of words we use to apply to things we do; and quite a different set for what others do. Others have prejudices -we have convictions. Others are stingy- we are very thrifty. Others try to keep up with the Joneses- we are simply trying to get ahead. And so it goes all the way down the line. Well, the law comes in and applies the same terms to everyone. The law says, "You shall not......" And the law is absolutely impartial in its application. When we are confronted with the law of GOD, we can no longer deceive ourselves. We have to admit that what we are doing is wrong. There is nobody who dares to stand up to GOD and say, "Well, others may be wrong, but...... The law says, No!
In fact, the law says - 'All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." (Rom. 3:23)
This is why The Almighty provided for us Salvation through His Only Begotten SON, The LORD Jesus Christ!
Pete, the people did Not know who they were crucifying; did Not know that they were crucifying their own Messiah, Yahshuah ha Moshiach - The Christ, The Messiah, The Only Begotten SON of Almighty GOD! "Forgive them FATHER, for they know not what they do."
The Christ, The Yahshua ha Moshiach, The Holy One, Only Begotten SON of Almighty YHWH was Without sin - this is why He could take our place and suffer the wrath and judgement, and experience the rejection of the FATHER, in our place!
The word "sin" is defined as "transgression", "Lawlessness", "Missing the mark of GOD's Holiness, His Pure, Perfect Standard." We serve a HOLY GOD. "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of GOD"
The Hebrew Old Testament has some 12 different words to define sin and the Greek New Testament about five. Some of these include -
A deliberate act against the law of God. See 1 John 3:4. (The King James Version uses the word “transgression,” but the Greek word means “lawlessness,” which is deliberately choosing to live a life of sin.)
A mental consent to a temptation or a sinful desire, --. See Rom. 7:7,8. (See also Matt. 5:27,28; James 1:14; Prov. 24:9.)
Unbelief, a deliberate rejection of a Biblical truth. See Rom. 14:23. (See also John 3:18; John 16:8,9.)
Neglect of known duties or opportunity. See James 4:17. (See also James 2:14; Matt. 23:23; Matt. 25:43-46.)
A law, principle, or constant force, dwelling in our sinful natures (indwelling sin in the flesh). This makes us slaves to sin. See Rom. 7:14, 20-23. (See also Luke 11:39; John 8:31-34.)
The Holy Word of GOD teaches: "...LET GOD BE TRUE, BUT EVERY MAN A LIAR..." —Romans 3:4
As a Christian I believe the Word of GOD. I am a faithful, and diligent student of the Holy Scriptures, understanding GOD's Word is of upmost importance to me.
HIS Word also states:
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils." —1st Timothy 4:1
As a Christian I believe the Word of GOD. When I came to praying.org I thought I had registered at a Christian Prayer Intercession Group of members. If I have made a mistake, I do apologize to all here I may have misread. I will need to be more careful in the future.
I mean no disrespect, Pete.
Zephania
Jesus spoke to them saying: ""If you love Me, you will keep My commandments." John 14:15
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Last edited by ZephThree17 : 01-22-2008 at 08:51 PM.
Reason: added scripture
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01-22-2008, 11:09 PM
| | | ? pete your jesus made mistakes? he did'nt get it right all the time? i dont know him. and im really not getting the connection buddah and hollywood being used to somehow impress your point about Jesus? i hope you find a solid bible study group to join. it will help. if youre going to explain Jesus in the bible it will really help you. | 
01-22-2008, 11:33 PM
| | Banned | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: St. Marys, Georgia
Posts: 10
Rep Power: 0 | | I may have used too many words to say, "Give others a break when they make mistakes -- no matter how painful the effects. People mostly try to do the best they can to not hurt people; and when they do, it is usually out of ignorance or misunderstanding. Even when pain is intentionally inflicted, the person inflicting the pain has most likely been hurt badly before. People just want to be loved. Understanding, Love, Compassion, and Forgiveness, is always the best course."
Maya Angelou said, "When you know better, you do better." If you "know not," you may step on people's toes. When someone hurts me, I assume it was accidental. But even if it wasn't, I do whatever I have to do to release the past as soon as I can -- for me as much as them. I have things to do in this life that require my attention to be on the road ahead -- not the road behind. The things back there that were of value, I have brought with me.
I appreciated your post, and all the scripture; but I'm not sure why you think I would feel disrespected... Unless, perhaps you think I'm a Buddhist? I quote Henry Ford sometimes, too; but I'm not an industrialist, either... Truth doesn't stand or fall on the reputation of the speaker; I don't know who wrote that teaching, but I'm sure it was a human heart contemplating how to respond when another human caused it harm or discomfort.
This post was really about forgiveness and non-judgment, and not so much about law or sin. My point was kind of the point Jesus may have been making when he said that all the Law of the prophets hangs on Loving God and Loving your Neighbor. If you do these things always, you could never break a commandment. It is easier to Love than to remember a list of laws. In other words, "get out of your head and into your heart." | 
01-23-2008, 12:00 AM
| | Banned | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: St. Marys, Georgia
Posts: 10
Rep Power: 0 | | "My Jesus" knocked over furniture, raised his voice, spoke occasionally with frustration, and was chased out of more than one place He spoke; and, in the end, thought God had forsaken Him -- according to the Bible, anyway. When He did, as well as when He was afraid, He prayed and regained His peace, or composure. I didn't use the word "mistake," nor did I use the word Buddha or Hollywood. Jesus used stories about asses falling into wells, and other examples relevant to the day, and had the same difficulty of being misunderstood. This confusion, that happens when people start thinking and comparing the things they have been taught, is exactly why Jesus told people to Love each other. And Judge not. He was telling them it was simpler to be a good person than they may have been taught.
My point about the monkey and the human slapping each other was that, when one person in a situation hurts another, even if that person acted first, or even maliciously, it falls to the one who knows better to STOP fighting. This was a funny example of the old adage, "It takes the bigger man to apologize..." If you are the only one in a fight who knows you shouldn't be fighting, and you don't stop, who will? | 
01-23-2008, 12:40 PM
| | Senior Member | | Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,047
Rep Power: 2 | | Welcome, Friend Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered pete your jesus made mistakes? he did'nt get it right all the time? i dont know him. and im really not getting the connection buddah and hollywood being used to somehow impress your point about Jesus? i hope you find a solid bible study group to join. it will help. if youre going to explain Jesus in the bible it will really help you. | We welcome you, Friend. Sorry, didn't get your name, but GOD knows your name. Isn't it awesome that GOD commands us to love one another as we love ourselves. He sent His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, to earth for us. Jesus knew from birth what He had to do because of His Father's love for us. He willingly gave His life on the cross to redeem us from our sins. GOD granted us a "free" will to live out this life on earth. We are free to believe or NOT believe in Him. We are free to honour and glorify Him or discredit and mock Him. We are free to worship Him, or crucify who He is. We are free to love or HATE Him. We are free to choose life, or DEATH...we are free to do anything we choose to do because GOD made it so. GOD also KNOWS who belong to Him and who do not. The human race doesn't stand in judgement against other men. GOD is the "righteous" Judge and in the end, He will judge me, you, Pete, Sarah, Peter...all humans. In the end, the choices we made and make in this life......they determine our eternal destiny. Isn't it awesome that we have a "free" will that will ultimately lead us to eternal life OR eternal damnation? GOD is good. He is Omniscient, Omnipotent, Omnipresnt. There is One GOD, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit. | 
02-03-2008, 09:38 PM
| | | Hum.... I happened upon your post. I believe that biblically your point of view on "the heart" is in error. The bible has a different view of the human heart as is seen in Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" We should never trust our own hearts. We must put all of our trust in the Lord. He knows what is best for us.  | 
02-04-2008, 11:14 AM
| | Senior Member | | Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,047
Rep Power: 2 | | WOW! You Just Now Read That Post? Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered I happened upon your post. I believe that biblically your point of view on "the heart" is in error. The bible has a different view of the human heart as is seen in Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" We should never trust our own hearts. We must put all of our trust in the Lord. He knows what is best for us.  | I stand corrected, Unregistered. Indeed you are absolutely correct. Actually, that is one of the verses in Jeremiah that I like to share. Thanks for catching that for me. Where did I write this post so I can correct it. A long time ago I started experimenting with something. I always thought I was right about a lot of things and so I would take others advise and not do what I really wanted to do..I would read and absorb the Word and try to go by blind faith. Guess what. Contrary to what I thought was going to happen, my whole world started shifting around and things started solving themselves. That's when I knew that the Lord wanted me to TRUST others because they are who He works through...they are His voice. What an awesome discovery. Can I know a little more about you, unregistered? |
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